Welcome to Episode 54. I spoke to Jessica Bowler and Iris Gatzweiler, two senior procurement clients who shared some insights into the pitching process. It’s particularly useful for you if you want to know why clients typically pitch out for business, procurement’s role in the whole pitching process, how the brief is developed and some insight into how the final decision is made. There are also some shared examples of where agencies have performed particularly well in the pitch process.
Don’t forget to go back to Episode 9, where Jessica and Iris talked about how to approach and develop relationships with procurement.
And if you want to expand your current client relationships and you’re working in agency client service, my Account Accelerator programme is designed specifically for you. By the end of nine weeks working with me, you’ll have a repeatable client centric strategy and a plan to help add more value to the client business and increase revenue from existing accounts. Drop me a line at jenny@accountmanagementskills.com or find me on LinkedIn.
Transcript:
Jenny: 00:00
I am super excited about this interview because I’ve asked today’s guests to come back for a second time because the first one was so popular.
Iris Gatzweiler and Jessica Bowler have been working in marketing procurement for many years in the pharmaceutical industry, and currently hold very senior procurement roles for a global pharmaceutical company.
They are joining me today to talk specifically about pitching and what you should know about procurement’s role in that process. Now, if you haven’t listened to the previous episode, and your clients are enterprise level clients with procurement departments, I’d highly recommend you go back and listen to episode nine. It’s packed full of tips and golden nuggets about the role of procurement and how agencies can approach and develop relationships with them. So welcome Iris and Jess.
Jess 01:46
Thank you so much, Jenny. Thank you for having us back. We’re very excited to be back.
Iris 01:50
Thank you, Jenny. It’s great to be back.
Jenny 01:53
Absolute pleasure. It’s lovely to see you both again. So before we get into the questions, for those of the listeners who haven’t heard the previous episode, would you mind both spending a couple of minutes just talking about your backgrounds? Iris should we start with you?
Iris 02:06
Yes, sure. So, Iris Gatzweiler, I am currently based in France based in Paris. I have close to 20 years of experience in procurement, having worked in many different roles around the globe. My last assignment took me all the way to Asia. And now I’m back in Europe, I’m holding a cluster role where I’m overseeing a number of markets and procurement professionals based in those markets working with me.
Jenny 02:33
Wonderful, Jess.
Jess 02:35
I’m Jessica Bowler, but I go by Jess, and not as exciting of a location, I’m in Connecticut and I too have just about 20 years of procurement experience over a lot of different categories, but currently overseeing a lot of marketing services categories for a pharmaceutical company. And I too have a team and we cover North America.
Jenny 02:58
You see the location in Connecticut equally sounds glamorous to us, it’s the difference, isn’t it? So it’s lovely to see you both. Thank you for taking the time to speak to me today. And I’d love to dive into the questions because last time lots of agencies told me how much value they got. So Iris, can I start off with you? What are the main reasons that drive the decision to invest in a pitch process?
Iris 03:23
I think that’s a great question to start Jenny. So I think the reasons can be really multiple, but mentioning maybe the most prominent ones, so first and foremost, we might be launching a new brand. So if that’s the case, of course, you would bring in an agency, possibly an agency of record. So for that, you would definitely go out and do a pitch process. There could be supplier performance issues, whilst we try to work with our suppliers, to iron out issues together find solutions, occasionally you will reach a stage of the relationship where you say, this is not going to work, we’re going to have to change. So that will be typically a decision to go to pitch. And then we have policies, procurement policies, have level of spending or thresholds, that would normally mean that we go to pitch. So there is ways to work around this partnership with agreements but even once you have had an agreement or contract for a number of years, we would typically go back to the market and just as a good practice to see, is this contract still competitive? And are we still getting the best value for money? So those would be I think, the main reasons why we would do a pitch.
Jenny 04:34
I’ve just thought of another question to kind of follow up on this. If I was an agency of record for you, is there any way that I would get a heads up on the fact that a pitch might be coming up in the future? And if so, how would I do that?
Iris 04:49
Yeah, absolutely because, especially with our agencies of records, we know that the personnel could be dedicated so we would make sure that the agency gets a head up, because you, as an agency need to plan, you need to do your staffing. So if the relationship works, it will be part of a business discussion that you have, when the contract is coming up for renewal, I would say around six months time. If there were performance issues, then there is usually a plan that you work on together. And there will be milestones and the plan will be made very clear that if the agency isn’t reaching the milestones, if we’re not finding a suitable solutions, then this might lead to a pitch process.
Jenny 05:34
Great. One thing that’s just occurred to me actually here, because you and I met many years ago, when you were working for another pharmaceutical company, and we used to have a regular steering committee meeting, didn’t we? And I was almost wondering whether that kind of strategic forum was a place where maybe as an agency lead, that you would get a heads up on what was coming up in the pipeline, would you say, because you used to facilitate that meeting, didn’t you?
Iris 05:59
Absolutely. And I remember that you and I, we put that governance model in place at the time because we were really lacking the governance and lacking governance means lack of transparency, making assumptions. So both sides, they make some assumptions, but they’re not sure it’s the right assumption to make. So absolutely, I think governance, having steering committee meetings, having regular exchanges, whereby we can bring those topics up, you know it could be also exciting topics saying we’re extending a brand, and there’ll be new opportunities, they need to be planned for in the same way, in a possible exit of an agency.
Jenny 06:36
Fantastic. And one of the things that a lot of account managers that I’m working with at the moment are suggesting, we’re calling them quarterly business reviews, or quarterly strategic sessions, which very much involve procurement, where procurement is present. But even when they’re not, and it’s a smaller company, it’s that kind of higher level discussion that you’re able to have on an ongoing basis. Fantastic. That was already so valuable. So thank you, Jess, let me come to you. Can you talk a bit about how the brief is developed for an agency when you’re going to pitch?
Jess 07:07
Sure, absolutely. So we have a lot of great templates that have been developed over the years and I think everybody tries to make them their own depending on what area you’re working in, or what your stakeholder personality is like. We have a lot of great templates that we utilise. And that’s always a really great starting point. And I just see it as everything I think we’ll talk about today, is a partnership. So that brief is developed in collaboration with your stakeholder as well as procurement. We look at it from an operational standpoint, timelines, is it feasible? And I always really try to check ourselves to say, we’re looking for a long term partner, typically.
So if we’re looking for a long term partner, let’s not try to rush through the brief or rush through the timelines, because we’re trying to put a partnership in place for many, many years, that will be successful. Obviously, that doesn’t always happen. But I always think you should try to set yourself up for success from the beginning in terms of being as detailed as possible in the brief, really asking all the questions, if you think you want to have a live Q&A session, or do you want to do it over email, do you want to have a chemistry check, which I think is more important now that we’re in this sort of virtual COVID environment? So really see the whole thing as a collaboration and partnership with your stakeholder. And I think that that’s so important, I think that those have been my most successful RFPs.
Jenny 08:25
Such good points already, thank you. And I mean, when it comes to timings Jess, throughout your experience of running these kinds of pitches, would you say there’s a best practice timeline for finding a long term partner?
Jess 08:39
I think it really depends on whether you’re talking about a project or true AOR. And then what area you’re talking about, for me, if I’m talking about marketing services, it could be anything from HCP creative to DTC creative to medical education. And each of those, I would say, have a slightly nuanced timeline only because if you’re looking for a full creative, I like to give as much time as possible. But I would say I’ve seen them, anything from as short as two weeks, which I think we could all agree here, and certainly the listeners are shaking their heads, that’s not enough and not ideal, but I’m not going to say it doesn’t happen. I think a month is ideal and I’m starting to see more and more we’re landing at that three week time period.
Jenny 09:22
Wow. Okay. Three weeks is kind of like the typical timeframe. Okay.
Jess 09:26
It’s pretty tight.
Jenny 09:27
I was thinking from an agency’s perspective actually, three weeks, it’s pretty tight, but it’s pretty normal, I think, thinking back to when I was in the agency world. Okay, that’s really useful thank you. Another question for you Jess, how do you decide, how do you make the decision about who you invite to the pitch process?
Jess 09:43
It’s super complicated and complex and I think that’s a good thing. So it’s not a knee jerk decision. It’s not pre decided, again, it’s in partnership with your stakeholders. Are they coming from an AOR that had a problem and they were on a performance plan? So are we going to let them pitch for the business or is that sort of done? If they’re in a network will we allow them to have sister or brother agency within their network pitch? And then really looking at what the needs of the business are. And so is it a large network agency? Or is it a smaller, more niche agency? Does your team base, maybe want to see a variety of agencies, so maybe it’s a mix of the smaller independent and the larger network? So really getting a feel for what your stakeholder’s looking for and what they’re open to. And then you have to go obviously, to the agencies and make sure they’re conflict free, they have people available, they have the right therapeutic expertise and that they can do it in the timelines that you’ve established.
Jenny 10:42
So have you found that your stakeholders are more open to lots of different types of agencies? Are they typically open? Or do they tend to want to stick to the networked agencies who have a footprint in every market, for example?
Jess 10:58
So it depends, and I know that that’s not always the most helpful answer. But it really does depend. And I think it’s that trust level and that partnership that you’ve developed with your stakeholder, and I can usually get my stakeholders to take a risk, on a smaller, more niche agency, if I truly believe that they can do the job, they’re willing to sort of take that bold move and allow us to put it in front of them. Obviously, it would be one of many, so that it wouldn’t only be smaller agencies there, they would have a choice. But I can say in doing that, I have had some of our agencies break through and win.
Jenny 11:34
Wow. And as you were talking then, I was thinking if I’m an agency owner, or an account manager listening to this, the role of procurement in terms of guiding the marketing client is so powerful, isn’t it? And all the more reason to be developing relationships with the procurement team, because they really are at the centre. And like you said, with all of your experience, they trust you, and therefore they’ll take a chance maybe on a smaller agency than maybe they normally would.
Jess 12:02
I think it’s so important, Jenny. And I think what I’m finding more and more is that, the agencies I can reach and maybe during COVID has been easier, some people might say it would be harder because people aren’t going to meetings, or you’re not meeting that way. But I do think it’s opened up other avenues to meet new agencies. But I do think it’s important to try to forge that bond with procurement. Because what I do find is if they go to the stakeholder first, the marketer or medical personnel, then I feel like I’m backtracking. So who are they? Doing a financial check on them? Are they sound? Are they big? Do they work with anyone else? Are they small? What kind of business do they do? You know, a lot of people want to work with us and that’s great. But I also feel like sometimes people say anything to get in the door. And so it’s really important that procurement checks that and make sure and then in order to work with us there are certain processes in place. So whether that be a contract or other things. So if a stakeholder comes to us and says I really want to work with X, and none of those other things have been done, we’re really behind the ball.
Jenny 13:08
It’s just so important, like you said. Well, there’s two things I wanted to say actually, the first one was, I read an article in the Chartered Institute of Purchasing and Supply, which is obviously the procurement ‘go to’ read. And they were talking about how during the pandemic, the role of procurements become ever more important. You’re seeing more and more procurement people being promoted to CPO, so very influential in terms of the C suite. So I think the duty of every agency who has an enterprise level client, to nurture that relationship with procurement, I just think it’s so important. The other thing that I wanted to say was, yesterday, I went to an agency nomics event where there was lots of agency leaders, and the subject came on the radar in terms of agencies with purpose at the heart and also with policies in place like DEI, which stands for Diversity, Equity and Inclusion. And I was interested from a procurement perspective in the consideration process of agencies, whether that’s the kind of thing that you look at?
Iris 14:09
Jess do you want to talk a bit from a US perspective, and then I can maybe add a bit of rest of world?
Jess 14:14
Absolutely, it’s, as you can imagine, a big area of focus. And it’s not new for us, it has been for a number of years. And so we do look at that, it’s very important to us. And I think more and more agencies are realising that when they send an initial email or initial call, they’re calling that out more and more, which is great. What we see in the US is sometimes it’s harder for those agencies because they do tend to be smaller in nature to truly be an AOR. So what we’re finding is they’re great for project work, and that there might be certain AOR work that they can do and then maybe it’s two agencies working together rather than just one because they do have like such strong talent and really great niche expertise. The other thing that we can do is have them partner with the larger agency networks and we can have them come in that way. So like I said, we’ve been doing it for a while, it’s not new for us, we have lots of programmes in place where we sort of mentor and nurture agencies, typically two to three over the year, teach them about our processes, and what it’s like to work there and really see where they can fit into our business.
Jenny 15:22
Amazing. Thank you. That’s really useful. Iris was did you want to add any points to that?
Iris 15:26
Yeah, I would say outside the US this is a little more tricky, because sometimes legislation will make it more complicated to answer questions to suppliers. But we’re definitely trying to get under the skin of our suppliers with respect to DEI as well. We’re staying within the framework, but we’re encouraging them to talk to us about the policies that they have in place in this area. In France, we recently did an event where we invited preferred vendors to come and talk to us specifically, I say us but the entire business, the entire organisation was invited to come and talk to us specifically about sustainability and about the DE and I. Andthat was really greatly received by our agencies and by our stakeholders. Just this week, as a company, we relaunched our DE and I strategy. And this is the first time that I’m hearing, also, our leadership mentioned the importance of suppliers. And I believe there will be some sharing sessions of the DEI strategy with our preferred vendors and key suppliers, probably starting in the US, but probably eventually trickling down, that is the first time that I’m hearing also our leadership say, our suppliers are an extension of us and if we’re serious about this, we need to make sure that we’re working with companies who also take this very seriously.
Jenny 16:54
Wow. So it really is top of the agenda and you’re actually seeing change as a result. So that’s amazing, thank you. So we’ve talked about kind of the selection process. But have you ever come across the situation where an agency has declined to pitch? Iris, can you answer that one?
Iris 17:11
Yes, this happens, believe it or not. Could be again, because of numerous reasons. So I think Jess already touched on a few reasons before, so they might not have the expertise, we may have reached to someone who wholeheartedly says we’re not the best in the field, we would prefer not to participate. They may have a conflict of interest, so depending on whom they’re working with already, we not always have all this information. So we expecting them to tell us whether or not there is a conflict of interest. And sometimes agency question or motivation for change. And they’re wondering whether we are really willing to change, because it is an investment from an agency to go to pitch, I think sometimes our stakeholders don’t realise that. And that’s also where we can educate them and Jenny, you have been on the other side, it is a lot of work. So if you have the feeling that the client is not ready to change, or award this business, then you might actually preserve your agency and say, we would prefer not to participate. And I think, again, I would welcome that discussion upfront. Usually, if there is a trust and a good relationship, we can have that discussion, because then we’re not wasting anybody’s time.
Jenny 18:28
I think these are really valid and interesting points. I mean, yes, absolutely Iris, from my perspective, when you’re on the other side of it and you know that you’ve got a one in four chance of winning, but that’s still a huge investment, the average two to three weeks of my existing team who’s already working on other business for other clients. So it puts a strain on the team, not to mention the hours spent on creative and strategy, etc. So I agree it’s a huge investment. And we talk about qualification, when you get an opportunity, is it really the right opportunity for you? So I think you’ve come up with some great points. And equally, I think agencies have their own qualification criteria for whether it is an opportunity that they should pursue, or actually shouldn’t. And in the event that they did say, No, would you say that that would affect their ability to be invited again?
Iris 19:18
On the contrary, I would say, again, I think I prefer to have the honest discussion upfront, we’re not wasting time, we’re not wasting money. I see this only as a positive. And I have also not come across where my stakeholder would hold that against them. Not sure Jess if you have any examples?
Jess 19:38
No, I feel exactly that way. I think you actually earn points and respect by declining for whatever reason that you feel you needed to.
Jenny 19:48
That’s a good point, actually Jess because actually, it fosters more trust, doesn’t it? You know, we’re being really honest and transparent with you, we can’t manage this or we don’t have the capability or we have a conflict, etc. That’s a really good point. Jess once you start the process, is there a chemistry phase or a short term project phase where you have an opportunity to test that the relationships going to work?
Jess 20:11
I think that’s a great question, Jenny. I think in a perfect world, I would always love to do a pilot phase or a test or chemistry check. But it is something we talk about with our stakeholders and I think we referred to it earlier with COVID, I think it’s more and more important, because we’re not in a room together for just that pitch day where you’re in between the presentation, you’re joking around, you might be catching up if you know someone from a prior life or prior project. So I do think it’s difficult. And I will say that it varies by team. And time has a lot to do with it. So maybe if it typically has been historically an hour to an hour and a half, maybe will be two hours now. So we do have time for sort of an icebreaker or some other chemistry check. I do have other groups where maybe they want to start out with a small project. So we can sort of do a pilot piece or a small piece of a project, maybe they’re working with another AOR but it’s not going well, they know they’re going to be heading to a pitch, they don’t really have time for a full pitch. So maybe they piece out a couple of projects to a couple of different agencies and sort of see how that goes. So lots of options. I think you can be creative here. I do think in an ideal world, it would always be great to have a chemistry call or chemistry check. I would just be mindful of one pitfall that I’ve learned in my 20 plus years is a Q&A session can go one way with one agency and can go a very other way with someone else. And at the end of the day, it could impact the creative, or that final piece that gets presented on the final day. So it is important for the procurement person to be involved and sort of take note of that. And if a certain agency doesn’t ask a certain question that you think could take them down a rabbit hole, that you make sure that you let the other agencies know that as well.
Jenny 22:00
That’s a very fair process. Is there anything else, I’m curious now, is there anything else that you should avoid, that agencies should avoid doing? Because you’ve just described scenarios. I can just see when I was walking into pitches and seeing people I knew and you’ve taken me back to that moment, is there anything else that you’d say to agencies?
Jess 22:16
I think one of the best things to do, and I know it can be sort of awkward and everybody might at first squirm a little in their seats, but I love icebreakers. I’m not going to say that I don’t squirm too stressing about the answer, what are you going to say? It can’t be the same as the person in front of you. But I have to say like prior to the pitch, it sort of just takes the guard down a little bit. People relax, because they’re focusing on what that answer is going to be to the icebreaker, maybe you laugh a little, you find out little nuggets about people. Everyone hasn’t just worked in this industry their whole time. They have a whole life outside, they might volunteer or do something else that you’re interested in, have children, have interesting hobbies, travel to amazing places. So I do find that that really helps. And it’s worked even on Zoom calls and other virtual pitches.
Jenny 23:08
Can you share with us an example of an icebreaker question, or can you remember any?
Jess 23:13
I think there was one, I can’t remember exactly what they were asking, but it was like something really unique about yourself. And people were talking about how like they were in a movie, or they were in a TV show, or they had once helped rescued or saved someone. And people were talking about really crazy allergies they had to bizarre things. And there was just so much laughter in the room. And actually, this agency was called back for sort of a second round, we went to a wider number than we normally do. And then we sort of narrowed it down. And when they came back in, it was actually very creative. Each one of us had a symbol next to us based upon what the answer was to our icebreaker question. So that’s like the symbol that we got for the day. And it was great, just for them to, a week or so later to sort of bring us back to all the laughing and getting to know each other that we did. And people shared a lot so it also sort of starts to build that trust. And I always think of my stakeholders saying when they’re hiring an agency, like I really need to think about, could I be like trapped in a cave with them for long periods of time because sometimes that is what it feels like. So I think that that icebreaker situation allows you to really feel like, could you be trapped with that person.
Jenny 24:31
Do you know Jess, I think this is super useful. Honestly, you’ve just shared something that I think if any agency is just about to go into a pitch process, I really hope that they take heed to this because I think, you’re absolutely right, it kind of has that emotional connection, doesn’t it? And like you say if it works equally well on zoom as well. And what I love about what they did, that agency, they’ve kind of anchored that feeling by bringing back that symbol for you, haven’t they? To remind you of how much fun you had the first time around. Whoever did that was super good. They were super good. And what was so great was they explained the symbols, because they weren’t completely straightforward because some of our answers were wacky. So then they got to explain how they creatively came up with that being a symbol. It also showed us how they think, how they translate, how they are creative, how they work together and collaborate. Honestly, it was the best I’ve seen, and to me really raised the bar. That is really a best in class ideas. So thank you for sharing, because I think there’s probably lots of agencies taking notes. What can we do? What can we do? You’re absolutely right, it demonstrates their creativity, right off the bat.
Iris 25:36
Can I share a no go for me because it might be really useful?
Jenny 25:40
Yes, please.
Iris 25:40
It’s been a while that I’ve done pitches in person, but it’s probably equally valid for zoom meetings.
I cannot stand it when people bring an army of people in on the day and it’s only one person talking. So why would you bring six or seven people that just sit in the room, there’s just one person talking. So one piece of feedback that I always gave is bring only people who have something to contribute, they need to have a role. If they’re just sitting here and looking pretty or looking bored, which is even worse, it is really not helping. So I’ve really sat through pitches where the agency came in with a number of people and we were totally unclear. What was their role? We also had, sometimes agencies coming in bringing great people and then the next face telling us but these are not the people that you’re going to be working with. Another no go. On the day, you need to have at least a core set of people who will be the people because this is a people business. At the end of the day, what will determine a lot of success is how people work together, how they click together. And if they had a good chemistry from the first minute, why would you then say well actually you’re going to be working with someone else.
Jenny 26:59
Anymore? Can you share, because this is gold for us?
Jess 27:02
Yeah, I totally echo what you’re saying. I never want to see someone come to a pitch and not participate. We stress it in the brief. We also say, bring the team. Now you can bring a leader who’s going to kick it off and going to be there to support, typically someone we all know, so I get that familiarity piece. But after that everyone should have a definite role in the room and going to be part of the go forward business. It’s crucial because of that chemistry piece. And especially now that it is so virtual, and you might not meet these people for six months, or a year from now. Who knows, right? The world is unpredictable at this point in time. So you need to really feel like, if you’re hiring someone that you know who you’re hiring,
Jenny 27:45
Right, anything else spring to mind?
Jess 27:48
The only other thing I will say and people were doing this in live, but now I think it’s so much more important is sort of, I don’t really know what to call it other than a placemat, but sort of a placemat of the people who are going to be speaking to you that day and what their role is. So when we’re debriefing later, we can pull out the placemat or the PowerPoint. It’s one slide, not something you have to comb through to get to, or it might just be its own individual piece. But it’s so helpful for us, because typically, we’re looking at a number of agencies, could be anywhere from three to six or more. And that recall and that placemat sort of allows us to get back to that presentation and remember who we’re talking about and debriefing about
Jenny 28:32
Great tips, great tips. I’m going to throw one in the mix for you and to see whether it resonates. Have you ever had a situation with particularly a team that’s maybe come from different parts of the agency organisation that you think, I don’t think they know each other? You’re both nodding for those listening in. And what’s happened as a result?
Iris 28:51
Yeah, and I would say again, it’s a no go. I mean, that network agencies or agencies who have these resources, they have a great advantage. But of course, you need to give the client the confidence that you actually in the background are going to make this seamless, and you’re going to work well together. So if you get the feeling that on the day of the pitch this is the first time that those two meeting are speaking together, I think that would be a red flag that I would highlight to my clients or to the agency afterwards.
Jess 29:23
I think it comes through in the presentation. Like when a presentation starts to tank, in my opinion it starts to tank for two reasons. You’ve completely missed the brief, maybe three reasons, you’re going over time or there’s no gel between the agency team that’s presenting to you. And unfortunately that just builds upon itself. You can tell. So I think our agencies that have worked with us long enough to know that if they don’t know each other then they’d better use that 2/3/4 weeks for them to get to know each other so that when they come in it feels like they know each other. And I think there’s some easy things the agency can do to make it feel like that. Like looking back, recalling through my memory, I can only think of one or two times actually in my whole career where I really felt like the people probably never laid eyes on each other, never practiced, didn’t necessarily know each other.
Jenny 30:13
But thankfully that was few and far between. And I was just thinking about the situation you shared, I think it was you Iris that said six other people didn’t say a word. And you know the funny thing about that is, because I’ve been in teams sitting there where I’ve been told to go but haven’t been able to speak, haven’t been allowed to speak, and someone steals the show and you feel awkward. And I’m wondering whether those other six people have been mandated to shut up and I kind of feel for them. But it’s the leadership’s role to kind of make sure it all gets pulled together. It was just a question for you, when an agency wants to ask questions maybe before a pitch, how is this facilitated?
Iris 30:52
So we have quite a formal process, Jess mentioned a little bit already. So we would always give time after the brief for questions. So in an ideal world, we would set up some phone conversations, possibly including the business owner, because sometimes the questions are quite technical and specific and we wouldn’t be able to answer them. But that’s not always possible. So at least we’ll give an opportunity for agencies to send their questions in or phone us up. We would always collect all the questions and circulate them amongst all the companies participating. So that’s usually a golden rule. One question asked by one agency, the answer gets circulated with everyone. That’s just part of the process and for fairness, because otherwise you are at the end, not comparing like for like. Yes, there’s always opportunities. And again, we usually stress with the stakeholders that they should allow that on the timeline. So not cutting that out, because again, it will save you a lot of time. These are the kind of crucial moments where they can ask very important questions that will really help them to prepare for the days. If you don’t have that, there’s likely a disappointment on the day, which could have easily been ruled out if you had given some time to the question phase. So when they want to shorten the timelines, that’s when I certainly make them aware that that’s a crucial piece, because if we’re writing a brief, but it again, comes back to assumptions. We know our business, we use acronyms, we simplify. The other person receives does make some assumption, and it’s always better to clarify exactly what really is asked for. I always say, the agency doesn’t have a crystal ball. I know US marketing teams, sometimes you see it that way, but they don’t have a crystal ball, if you don’t tell them. They won’t necessarily know even if they have worked with us for a long time.
Jenny 32:52
That’s good advice. I’m curious now, have you ever been in a situation. I’m just curious about what happens after the call? So as an agency participating in an all agency Q&A session, you think, Oh, the PR agency have asked a really good question. We’ve got to look like we are asking great questions as well. So there’s that kind of a little bit of competitiveness I think. Or a competing agency that does exactly the same as what you do, asking better questions than you are. Once the call is over, is there any kind of dialogue between the stakeholders to say, that agency wasn’t very smart, or I didn’t like the way they asked that question? Do they give feedback on that process, as part of the process?
Iris 33:35
So first of all, I would say that I wouldn’t necessarily advocate a call with all of the agencies. So we would take that agency by agency, because I do not believe that’s the best practice. Of course, it will be quicker, but I think you’ll have to give each agency a little bit of a dedicated time to ask questions. So I would certainly not advocate the all together. I mean, agencies know their competitors, they probably know who we’ve invited to pitch, but it just creates an awkward situation. Like you say people want to look good, they might just ask a question for the sake of asking a question. So I would not advocate if you don’t have time to do a call with each, you give them opportunity to send their questions and you answer them in a written format with everyone. I saw you nodding, but I think you would agree that it’s not good practice to have everyone on a call.
Jess 34:24
No, I would say I’m not a big fan of it. I haven’t seen it in years, but I’m not going to say years ago it wasn’t the best practice and I’m not sure why we thought that was a good idea. I hated it. I thought it was almost cringe worthy because I did feel like there was a lot of one upsmanship and everyone trying to figure out who everyone else was and where they worked for and it didn’t matter if you muted lines and muted participants. So I agree with Iris. And I think the only caveat is what I had said earlier, is just making sure no one agency goes down a rabbit hole so to speak, that the other agencies need to know about. And in terms of debriefing, we don’t immediately get on a call. But I would say it’s part of the overall debriefing process. So after the pitches, we’ll talk about the written proposals if they were sent, in our pre-read if they were sent in, those placemats, any type of icebreaker that they did, how the call was, how the written Q&A was if that’s what we do. And all of that sort of rolls up into our overall evaluation or scorecard. So it’s every piece of the process, because I laugh a lot when we do the pre-reads or we do the debrief calls, and I might be having a side conversation with a stakeholder that happens to be working on an RFP also, and they’ll say, Oh, agency XYZ, they’re so good, I can’t wait to see their presentation. And then pitch day, they’re the worst. And I’ve seen that happen time and time again, it doesn’t always happen. So I always just stress to my stakeholders, every piece is one part and not to make up your mind or any decisions until we sort of go in and see the creative or see whatever it is they’re presenting to us and meet the people in person. You can’t make a decision by a flat piece of paper, or just one phone call. What 15/20 minutes with someone.
Jenny 36:19
Going back to the best practice, I think I must have been unlucky because I was involved in several all agency Q&A sessions, obviously not with you guys, but with other businesses. So that’s great advice and good practice. And something that you said earlier, just about icebreakers, I was just curious, because I think an agency or several agencies have sent things in advance of a pitch. Has that ever happened to you? How do you feel about that? Has anything stood out?
Jess 36:47
So it really depends, I think we used to see a wide variety of things being sent in. So in my briefs now, we’re very prescriptive. Maybe we’re looking for a one pager or maybe we’re looking for something specific. Maybe we want the org chart, or the people’s names so that the brand teams can see if there’s anyone familiar. But I’m very specific now. I know agencies want to keep their creative to sort of unveil on pitch day, I don’t want to ruin any of that. So again, very specific with my stakeholder during the briefing process. Is there anything you want to see ahead of time? Sometimes they don’t want to see anything? And if there is, what is it? And how will that help you? Let’s just not ask for it because you’ve always asked for it. Let’s make sure there’s a true reason behind it. And you’re going to read it and there’s value add.
Jenny 37:34
And nothing kind of super creative, like a teaser? No. And you wouldn’t generally say that that was a good idea?
Jess 37:41
I wouldn’t. I think that sort of unveiling, whether you’re in the room or in a virtual room is such a big part of the process. And I wouldn’t want to take anything away from that with a pre-read. I don’t know Iris if you feel differently about that?
Iris 37:56
No, I feel the same. Also, you kind of don’t want to do too much upfront. It is a competition so to speak. But I think you can also be going overboard a little bit. So I would agree with just some pre-reads might be needed and we should ask for them. But we should also be quite specific because again, in the interest of not wasting time, we said it before, it’s a lot of work a pitch. If you then also prepare huge pre-read packs that nobody has time to go through it doesn’t make any sense. So I come back to communication, make sure that everybody understands what’s the expectation, what’s needed. And that’s our role also to challenge the stakeholder like Jess just said, Oh, I’ve always had a pre-read. But you know, how many times did you really go through it? Was it useful? What do you really want to see? So we can really direct to what makes sense.
Jenny 38:51
I was thinking along the lines of something kind of physical and more creative, like I don’t know, silly things like a matchbox that’s going to light the fire or like a squeegee thing or something physical that you, would be some kind of teaser, that they might take the time to do. Some kind of detail that then there would be a big reveal afterwards. But I don’t get the impression that that would be something that perhaps an agency out as being different or attractive?
Jess 39:18
I think it really depends on your prior relationship. And I think if we go back to in person, sometimes agencies bring in pretty flowers that sort of match the colour scheme, if they’re doing branding for us, or some other touch like that. Something that does tie into the creative they’re going to unveil. Sometimes they can figure out they’re the last one of the day or they’re the one before lunch, so they might bring some candy. It obviously has to be something very small. And in terms of its value, it has to be very small, but I do think those little touches make a difference. But I think it’s hard to do that in this virtual environment. So I’ve not seen any of that. I think it would be very difficult to be shipping to people’s houses. It adds a layer of complexity I don’t think an agency should take on. So any agency listening, please don’t do that. It’s not necessary. It’s nice when we’re in a room together. And I wouldn’t stop those practices that have worked for you in the past, but I wouldn’t go out of your way to start shipping to procurement and marketers houses.
Jenny 40:18
Great. Okay. That’s sound advice. Thank you.
Iris 40:21
I wish to add, some of this in the past, you’ve seen gadgets or things. We also have a level of consciousness about resources and environmental aspects of these kinds of things, produced waste. They may be nice on the day, but they’re going to end up on someone’s desk and eventually, they’re going to end up in the bins. So I would challenge that. These days, you’re hoping there’s a little bit of an environmental consciousness that would say, actually, that’s maybe a nice touch, but at the end of the day is it really needed? And certainly from my point of view nowadays, I look at this, and I think it doesn’t feel right in the spirit of the era that we’re living.
Jenny 40:58
Really good advice. Thank you for saying that. Can you share any examples where you think the agencies have performed really, really well, during that RFP or pitch stage? Anything that stood out to you? Jess you’ve already shared, kind of some really good tips and Iris, you’ve drawn on your experience to share some others. But anything that we haven’t talked about that might be worth sharing?
Iris 41:19
I feel like we covered a lot through the pre half already. I would stress again, the open communication. If something is on their mind and not clear how it’s going to work on the day, please ask the question. And again, that’s sort of kind of what our role is for in procurement as well. We are there to help them understand the process. It’s also for them good to ask us who will be there on the day, because that might not always be clear to them, either. So I think if that hasn’t been clarified with the agency, they should always come and ask, Okay, so from your side, who will be there? What’s their role? I think it’s good also to challenge us on, Are you having the decision maker in the room? Are we pitching to people who eventually then have to go and speak to their bosses? Or is the decision maker in the room because again, that might completely change the way you treat certain topics and what you want to share on that day with that specific group. So I think in the first episode, we already talked about communication as one of the key success factors. But I would stress it again, even through a very form of process, and as an agency, you have probably done quite a few of those, that every company is slightly different, every company runs it slightly differently. So if you’re not sure, if in doubt, I’d say better ask the question. And, you know, it doesn’t matter. It will take a little bit of everyone’s time, but it will help to set you up for success.
Jenny 42:40
Thank you.
Jess 42:41
I agree with that. I think the only other thing I would add is piggybacking on the communication piece is just follow the instructions in the brief. It’s usually very clear on who your point of contact is, please don’t contact the brand team. That’s like rule number one. And if you have to talk to them about something else, maybe something else you’re working on, check it with your procurement person, whoever is leading the brief, and then just be very mindful of the dates and what was asked for. So I can’t tell you the number of times that people have missed that there was something for pre-read. Or they missed the deadline, or they’re not sure about the time because of different time zones. Just be very mindful of that and follow the directions because I know it seems so simple and also so small. But if you’re missing those details through the pitch process, it is something we think about when we debrief. Do you have an issue with organisation, do you have an issue with project management? Do you not read things clearly?
Iris 43:40
So there is a lot of detail.
Jess 43:42
Exactly. There’s a level of detail in the brief. It’s purposeful. So I would say, just be very mindful of that.
Jenny 43:48
So how you do the pitch process is the kind of example of what you’d like to work with? So just one final question for anyone listening, and they’re thinking, I would love to work for a global organisation. I want to be a preferred supplier, any advice for them listening?
Jess 44:03
I would say we’re always open to meeting new people. People sort of, I think, don’t believe that, but it really is true. And I would say be persistent. You never know what’s going on inside an organisation. But don’t be annoying! And I try to be very realistic with new suppliers who are trying to come in. I don’t have anything now. Or we’re going through something but there might be opportunity in the future. So could you make a note on your calendar to contact me in four months or six months? And we’re also working on new ways to intake supplier information. So we used to just collect decks and then those decks would go into a file and then it would be similar to if they went into a filing cabinet, whatever the equivalent of electronic dust is and you never go to them again. So trying to collect information now through like a Microsoft Form or something like that, that can be downloadable into an Excel spreadsheet and you can easily search for the type of new agency you might be looking for, the category you might be looking for. So we’re trying to intake information differently, and then share it amongst our teams differently so that we can be better at it. But I encourage suppliers to be persistent and really tell us, what’s unique and different about you? Is it something new in the digital age? Are you a diversifier? Are you a supplier that’s really innovative? Are you doing a lot with sustainability? I want to hear it. And I might only be able to give you 15/20/30 minutes, but I will give you that.
Jenny 45:30
Wow. That’s amazing. Thank you, Jess. And Iris, from your side?
Iris 45:34
I think that’s one of the toughest points and toughest questions, because as a procurement function, there’s a balance to strike between spreading us too thinly, managing too many suppliers, because every supplier relationship needs work. So it’s not just bringing a supplier on. It’s administration process, but then it’s the relationship that you need to manage and that you need to look after. So we need to find a good balance between, giving enough time to existing relationships, making sure that we iron out any problems that we see there and then bringing in new talent, new suppliers. Also we, from a procurement point of view, sometimes we like to centralise, we give the leverage with the company. So again, we need to find that balance. And that’s a hard one to make. It also is a time consuming process. There’s so many companies out there who speak to us. So I think we touched on this a little bit, we’re trying to automate. In our first episode, we spoke about it, we’re trying to automate that intake that Jess is mentioning, because then it gives us search functionality. Because if you need a specific expertise, or you’re looking for something quite specific, then they might come up in a search. But for sure, things like sustainability, diversity, equity, inclusion, they will become more important. So those can definitely be points that it’s worth highlighting, especially if this is already setting you apart, maybe from other agencies and in a specific field.
Jenny 47:04
I think what I’m hearing from both of you is that from your perspective, as well as the agency’s perspective, it’s really beneficial to kind of lead with why we’re different, so that you know how to categorise them and you know where to put them in terms of a speciality. Because we do everything for everybody, that’s not a proposition really, that you can kind of easily recommend is it? So we’re hearing it from all angles actually, for agencies to be quite specific and deep and narrow with their focus and experience. This has been, as the last one was, so valuable. So thank you both so much for sharing. Is there any question I haven’t asked or anything that you haven’t said, that you would like to finish off with?
Iris 47:49
No, we’re just happy that the first episode got a lot of positive feedback. It’s great to know that these tips are useful for agencies. I think that can only help the entire, agency world and that it will help to continue also the relationships and encourage having the relationships with procurements, it helps our profession. So it’s a real win win. So we’re very happy to share a little bit more and hope this will be equally well received.
Jenny 48:18
It definitely will be. Jess, anything from you finally?
Jess 48:21
No, I echo the same. I think we covered everything. I don’t have anything else to add. But it was fun as always Jenny. You’re such a great facilitator. And it’s so helpful, because you seem to really know what the agencies want to know from us and what could help them. And so I love that we’re able to have these open and honest conversations and I really do hope that people listen and they find it helpful.
Jenny 48:42
They certainly will. Thank you both so much for joining me again. I really appreciate it. Thank you. I hope you enjoyed my chat with Iris and Jess and don’t forget to go back to Episode Nine where we talked about how to approach and develop relationships with procurement. And if you want to expand your current client relationships and you’re working in agency client service, my Account Accelerator Programme is designed specifically for you. By the end of nine weeks working with me you’ll have a repeatable, client centric strategy and a plan to help add more value to the client business and increase revenue from existing accounts. Drop me a line at jenny@accountmanagementskills.com or find me on LinkedIn @Jenny Plant. Until the next time, have a good week.
