Welcome to Episode 75 with my guest Beth Sharma, Client Services Director at Hallam. This episode is for you if you’re interested in any of the following three areas:
- You’d like to know what the Client Services Director does in an award-winning digital marketing agency.
- You’d like some tips on how to get more client recommendations.
- What it means for the client services team if you work for a B Corp agency.
After listening, check out Hallam’s impressive profile on The Drum Recommends.
Given the current unstable economic climate, client retention for agencies is a real top priority right now. If you’d like some training for you or a member of your client-facing team in how to manage your client relationships, so you’ll be seen more as a proficient proactive advisor, rather than a reactive audit taker, check out the details of my Account Accelerator programme. You can book a quick call with me to see if it’s the right fit.
Transcript:
Jenny 00:02
Today’s guest is Beth Sharma. Now Beth is CSD at digital marketing agency, Hallam. And I just want to spend a couple of minutes just talking about Hallam, before I introduce Beth. Hallam is a strategic digital marketing agency with a B Corp status. And if you don’t know what that is, we’re going to talk about that in a moment with Beth. They have won over 70 industry awards, notably Google’s best digital agency in EMEA in 2019. They also won the most recommended agency Grand Prix award, awarded by industry magazine, The Drum, and that was three years in a row. So I’m looking forward to Beth talking to me a bit more about that as well as having worked with a range of clients from global enterprise brands through to nonprofits and public sector businesses, with the main objective of helping good brands grow. So Beth, a very warm welcome to the show.
Beth 01:02
Thank you so much for having me, Jenny. I was just saying before we hit go that I am an avid listener to this podcast, so absolutely delighted to be here.
Jenny 01:12
I’m really pleased that you said yes. So thank you so much for being here. So Beth, let’s start off could you spend a couple of minutes just talking about your career path to date?
Beth 01:24
Sure, it’s definitely not been a straight line to where I’ve got to certainly. So hopefully, that gives people some faith that wherever they’re at in their career path, there’s definitely roles coming down the line for you. But I actually went to university to study biomedical science. So I was a bit of a science nerd at school and loved medical studies and studies of human biology. And then when I graduated, I think I knew quite clearly what I didn’t want to do, I didn’t want to sit in a lab by myself. And I don’t think I wanted to do further academic studies. I got this really amazing opportunity to go into a commercial function at a quite high growth SME, they sold tech to Big Pharma. So all of the topic pharma, and I was a bids and contracts associate, that was my first proper office job. And there, I spent a few years really honing my skills in the commercial sphere. I worked in a really busy sales and marketing team. I was responsible for putting together big tender documents for this quite complex SAS product and worked really closely with some of the most brilliant kind of sales professionals. And I think I absorbed a lot of that information in my first grad job, really. So it’s very, very lucky to have that kind of grounding in my early career. And then I got an opportunity as I was approached by startup in the same industry to go into a head of client service role there, which again, so early on in my career, to be honest, I think it was just too early for me to do that role. And I got there, and it was a startup. And it was very different to the established business that I’d worked in and I think I learned quite quickly that you have to wear many hats at a startup. I was doing all sorts of things. I was putting marketing strategies together, I was doing cold outreach, I was talking to the clients, I was almost doing everything. And I think I learned quite quickly that maybe that wasn’t the right place for me at that stage in my career. And I needed more growth. I needed more development. So then I got again, in a bit of a chance of fate was meeting the MD of Hallam. I was referred on to them by my business mentor at the time, and they just said go and chat to this guy who runs an agency. He’s brilliant, just go and ask for his advice and I went and had a coffee with him, and he just said, there’s an account management position open, do you want it? And I just thought I’d jump for it. Really again, it was a new industry for me. I hadn’t worked in digital marketing. I hadn’t really been trained professionally as an account manager. So I just think I thought at the time, why not? It seemed maybe a place that I’d get more growth and development and more support. So yes, I guess the rest is history. I’ve been at Hallam for four years and I’ve progressed from that kind of original account management position to a senior account manager and then I took on more of a management position so managing and mentoring the account management function. And then over COVID took on a Head of Client Services role which encompassed the account management and project management team, that’s how Client Services is set up at Hallam and then back in April they came and said “We’d love for you to take on the client services director position” that was opening up and yes, now, here I am.
Jenny 05:07
Wow. Well, I didn’t know the half of that background that is interesting, and I can see we’re going to dive-in in a minute more about your role as CSD, but I can see that you managed to pick up a lot of experience in a short period of time. Because even though on the surface, it seems you’ve progressed within Hallam so quickly, I’m not surprised given prior to Hallam what you had to do and what you had to juggle. Now, you said something quite interesting, and my ears pricked up, you had a business mentor, because someone listening might be thinking maybe I need a business mentor that will help open doors for me potentially? Can you just spend a couple of minutes talking about how did you get a business mentor and what was the arrangement?
Beth 05:52
So, again, I was very lucky, actually, I had one of my really dear friends from school, I had essentially grown up with this woman, and she owned a successful PR and communications, business. And I think when I got to, maybe just to the point in my career, I was a bit like, there’s a crossroads. I just reached out to her because I knew she was brilliant. I knew I could call on her. And I just said, Look, is there any chance you’ve got even just half an hour, every month, just meet for coffee, just for me to bounce some ideas off you. And she graciously said yes and allowed me to have some of her time. So I think I was lucky that I had that connection. But I think if you’re looking for business mentors, look for who is in your personal connections as well. Obviously, at the time, it was a family friend, but you know, look outwards. And I think that if you ask and somebody says no, then it’s really not a big deal. It’s much better to ask, and they say yes, and you get something really beneficial from it, than you just think, Oh, no, they won’t want to – they’re too busy. So I would say- just ask the question and see if they say yes, and it’s usually always that they say yes, and it’s incredibly valuable.
Jenny 07:11
Amazing. And just to go into a little bit more detail on that. Were you catching up monthly for half an hour? Was it a regular thing?
Beth 07:19
It was, yes, we did catch up, maybe at the start it was every couple of weeks, but then it dropped down to every month. And we would just be meeting in a coffee shop. And I’d come to her and say these are the challenges I’m facing in the workplace or, this is where I’m feeling a little bit unstuck or unsure about where to go. And we would just bounce ideas off me really, I think it was her role not to, she wouldn’t sit there and say you should do exactly this. She was just there to listen to me and just offer some good advice and active listening. So yeah, it’s brilliant. I definitely recommend getting yourself a mentor if you can.
Jenny 07:59
I think that’s a golden nugget right there. before we’ve even started the podcast, Beth, I really do. Because I think if you are ambitious, or you’re interested in investing in your career and you want to move up the ladder, then why not look around, just as you said, look for who could support you in that, because I don’t know about you, but in my experience, people are always willing to offer some advice, if you sort of frame it as 20 minutes of advice. And if you can make it a regular thing, fantastic. And I think the underseen thing about that is they do tend to open doors for you as well. So you get the advice, plus you get access to their connections potentially.
Beth 08:36
Definitely. I think because I was at the start of my career that really helped. But I think even if you’ve managed to get on the career ladder, and even within a business, look around you, maybe you could go to more of a senior leader in another department and just ask if they’ve got half an hour every month, It doesn’t have to be a personal network, it can absolutely be a professional network as well.
Jenny 08:59
Very good advice. Thank you. So can you dive into this? because I’m sure a lot of people may be listening, thinking I would either like to be head of client service one day, or I’m doing it now. And I’d like to be a fly on the wall to what and how Beth manages things, so can you can talk about what are your responsibilities currently in your role?
Beth 09:22
So, one element of it is leadership of the account management and project management function. I think essentially what I spend my time doing and focusing on is making sure our account management and project management offering and services are best in class, building an exceptional team of experts in the client services field. So it’s making sure the team is excelling at what they need to and then also setting a vision for that team. Where do we want to be in a year, in three years and defining that and thankfully I’ve got two absolutely brilliant heads of department who run either or both of those functions and really it’s just about setting a vision, giving it to them and almost getting out of the way. That’s often how I approach things. Because trusting your team is the most important thing. Really, in terms of general targets or objectives that I’m working towards it’s largely around client experience and client satisfaction. So making sure that across the agency we are truly client centric, and we are dedicated to providing that great client service and client growth. So that’s why I’ve got a revenue target, essentially. And that’s making sure that we are not only retaining, but growing our existing client base. So looking for ways we can cross and upsell our spa services. We’re a full-service agency. So it’s a little bit easier, actually, I find because we have so many different products and services that we can cross sell. And then finally, it’s client profitability. So again, I’m accountable for the entire agency wide profitability. And that’s where I actually pull on the levers of the project management. So they’re really focused on making sure that we’re delivering at scale at speed, but in a profitable way, as well so not over servicing our accounts either. So they’re the main things that I look after. in my specialist role, so to speak. And then on the other side I’m sat on the leadership team of the agency. And essentially, I’m accountable with the other members of the leadership team to make sure that we’re running a successful, profitable agency and that it’s a general success for the people working at Hallam as well. That part of my role I absolutely adore. So it’s been really fun to look at the agency as a business in a much more holistic way since I’ve joined the leadership team.
Jenny 11:52
Amazing that was so well, well put. Now, something you said may be quite different to some other agencies. And I’d love to dive into that with you, which is the fact that you separate the am and the pm role. You have two heads of department. Can you speak a little bit more about how that works? Like how do they work together? Because this comes up a lot and I have lots of discussions about this. But I’d love to hear it from your side. How do the two functions work together? And how are they different?
Beth 12:25
Yes, you know, I actually think I’ve listened to a few of the guests talk about this exact thing, Jenny. And to be honest, I would say it’s an evolution still. I think we’re still trying to figure out the best way of doing it and sometimes in some accounts, it just works. So, the product manager and the account manager seem to gel really well. Everyone knows their place. But then sometimes there’s still friction points. And there’s still a little bit of overlap and a little bit of confusion. So I guess I’m the first to say that we haven’t got it right. But the way that we’re trying to view it now is that project managers have a specialist skill set, and they are their delivery experts, that they’re focused on how can we make this project go from A to B in the most efficient way, in the smartest way. And they have, potentially qualifications around agile and waterfall like specific project management methodologies. And I think what we tend to lean on our project management team for is the really chunky discrete projects. So like delivering a website, for instance, or a large scale kind of global campaign, whereas account managers tend to wear both hats on the retainer side of things. So account managers will be doing an element of project management on retainers, but then they’ll draft in project managers when there’s discrete project that needs really tight delivery expertise. So that’s kind of project management, and then account management. I think we absolutely can do project management. But I think my focus, and what I’ve always said to the account managers is, we have a specialism within account management in itself. It’s very focused on relationship building, and then growth and being that trusted business adviser, being that what I call digital application expert and how do we take our services and apply them to our clients business? So I think if we’re also adding project management project delivery into there as well, it just becomes too big for one person. So it’s just about finding the right project for the right member of staff. Really, I think that’s how we tend to work it at Hallam.
Jenny 14:38
That’s very well explained. And makes total sense. And before we leave this topic, I’m just curious because I know that this is equally I think a lot of other agencies are trying to separate the role so they’re probably in that evolution stage, as you explained. What typically are the friction points that you refer to? Can you just give us a couple of examples of where that could possibly occur.
Beth 15:03
I think the friction points is if you introduce an account manager and project manager to one project, let’s say and one role traditionally takes more of the lead. So let’s say web projects, the project manager tends to become the first point of contact, or for retainers, the account manager tends to become the first point of contact. Because they are focused too heavily on that long term investment in the relationship what then can happen, the friction points is when one person feels left behind, and that they don’t have value to add. So that’s maybe the things like you double up on calls, and somebody sits there, and they’re like, I have nothing to say. And that becomes really disempowering for the other person, because then they have no real place in this team, in this squad and feel like how do I live? What is my value?
So whenever I experienced this, or I hear the tech or the team experiencing this, I just say, there is no direct rulebook for how you should run this. If you just want to completely say, the account manager can take the lead here and actually do some of the administrative side of project management, and that’s the best for the client, then we don’t need a specific way of working on this account and and vice versa. With the website projects, I think what I’ve found is that the project managers are perfectly capable also of having a really solid relationship with clients, as long as there’s one person focused on Okay, well, what’s next? How can we upsell? How can we retain this client once the project is done and dusted? That they continue with us. And I think that’s the only thing that I want to make sure that it’s still focused on in these projects, not that the project managers can’t have an amazing relationship with the client. They’re very capable of doing that as well.
Jenny 16:53
Absolutely, because as you said, previously, the account management team are very much focused on account growth, you’ve got to forecast target, you’ve got to think about where is the client at? Where are their challenges? Where are their goals? How can we help more with all of our products and services? So if that account manager gets too caught up in the weeds of delivery, then they’ve taken their eye off the ball there. So there’s that kind of context isn’t there? So that’s really well explained. Thank you. Just out of interest, obviously, your mentor put you on to Hallam. You met with the MD? What was it about that first meeting with the MD that you thought, right? I really want to work here.
Beth 17:35
Well, I joke with Jake that he’s just an excellent salesman. So basically, I guess maybe even the better question is why I’ve stayed at Hallam rather than why I chose to go to Hallam the the culture is genuinely incredibly cushioned for people who join and they really are ambitious, and they want to grow and they want to develop so there’s a real sense of autonomy accountability, kind of fail fast mentality. There’s a real push to have a sense of ownership in your own work and making sure that if things are going wrong, okay, everyone, just get in a room and talk it out and make sure that the feedbacks are on the table – I think one of your other guests talk about radical candour. That’s one of our values as an agency. So yeah, I think the culture has definitely kept me there, because there’s just brilliant people doing really good work. And then the second thing that makes Hallam different to other agencies, or I feel our kind of USP so to speak is around the delivery systems that we’ve put in place. And that’s really all it really boils down to is we’re focused on outcomes and not just outputs for clients. So, every client or project we take on, we just make sure that it’s grounded in business objectives. And we’ve got a strategy team and an account management team that are really focused on making sure that that is always the central point in our discussions versus just delivering in silos of digital marketing services. So that’s also something that then continues to just gain traction and gain success. We win awards for it, we have happy clients at the end of the day. So I think just grounding ourselves in business outcomes and building a team around that has really been a successful thing that we’ve moved to over the last few years.
Jenny 19:50
I think that’s really good advice for anyone listening as well because ultimately, no clients can part with any money to work with us unless we are directly having an impact on business. So as account managers, we’re almost acting like management consultants nowadays, aren’t we?
Beth 20:05
Yes, definitely.
Jenny 20:06
And it sounds very much like that’s how it works with you guys. And it’s great to hear that you’ve got a strategy team as well, how do the account managers work with the strategy team? Can you just talk about that for a sec?
Beth 20:18
Again, I think we founded the strategy team in the first year of COVID. I don’t want to say the word COVID. anymore. But yes, when I think we found that it was really vital that we had that kind of central cog in the channel specific strategies that we’re putting together. And again, I think there has been some friction points and overlap and a bit like who’s doing what, how do we empower the account managers to still feel like they can act strategically rather than just feeling like they need to bring in a strategist at all points of the conversation, because that’s also not what I think the strategy team is for. See it as the strategy team in an academic strategy function. So they are there to deliver strategy services and products versus an account management team who were there to be consultative and understand how we can apply our services to their business. So there’s this concept of digital application expert, but not necessarily be the ones delivering a strategy project, for instance. So that’s how we’ve separated out the two roles and responsibilities.
Jenny 21:29
Very good. And how does the account manager empower themselves to understand more about the client’s business outcome?
Beth 21:41
So we do that in a number of ways, starting from onboarding, we run these things called immersion sessions. So depending on the size of the business, it can run from just two or three hour sessions or it can be two or three full days, really getting under the skin of our clients, business objectives, their customers, or maybe meeting different stakeholders in the business, understanding that product service is really just almost going back to basics, and then just saying, if you could just tell us everything about your business, where would you start, and let’s work backwards from there. And then from there, it’s about once we’ve got all that information, empowering the team with that information to make sure that we’re again, focused on business objectives at the heart of our strategy, we then put a tactical plan together. And then probably the next point of that cycle with the client is maybe the next kind of QBR. Looking back and looking forward. So, what has changed in the business? How are we meeting your expectations? Are we meeting against your objectives? What’s changed in your industry, and just again, trying to take a holistic view, at all stages of the journey, really, but especially getting a really solid foundation in onboarding. And then every at least 90 days, you’re refreshing that in depth, holistic view of the business, I think that really helps to empower the account managers to truly understand the client’s business
Jenny 23:15
Really good. And you slipped in something there, which was under the radar, but I want to highlight it because I think it’s one of the first times we’ve talked about it on the podcast, those immersion sessions, call it what you will, onboarding immersion. But you said, as part of that process, we also make sure that we speak to other stakeholders within the business. So a client’s business might have a sales team that you will need to speak to, or a head or a CTO, or the technical department or the other departments as well as the marketing function that would help you understand more about their customers, presumably?
Beth 23:55
Yeah, oh, yeah, definitely. And almost start with that in mind.
So go to the client, maybe this is it’s your first introductory call to your account management team. And ask them the question, who else in the business do you think it’s important that I get to know? just ask that question, and then they’ll immediately be like, oh, yeah, our finance director or head of product, and they’ll start naturally filling in that gap. And then it’s just about making sure that you have again, a consultative with the client and say, look, we know everyone in the business, I’m sure it’s very busy, but I think it’s really valuable that we speak to your head of product because we’re really wanting to get to grips with the value of the products and how it works. So it’s still about positioning it in a way that is we’ve already figured out who we want to speak to. This is the value to you by speaking to them because unless it’s just like I don’t want to, speak to these people, and you don’t explain it. They’re like, oh, this person is really busy I don’t want to bother them, you know, so, I think explaining it in a way If that makes sense to them, and you’re focused on the outcome, and the value to them, I think is a really good place to start.
Jenny 25:05
I think that’s a super smart thing to do at the very beginning, because too often, and I end up training people, as account managers who say that they have one person as a relationship with that whole client organisation, they just know one person, so tenuous, because if anything happened to that client contact, or the person, the account managers left, the whole relationships finished. So having multiple points of contact multiple relationships, I think is super smart. Hallam. I know, as we said, at the beginning, is a member of B Corp. And I just wanted, first of all, for you to maybe spend a couple of minutes talking about what it actually is, for those who are unfamiliar. And also what that actually means in practice for you as an account management team.
Beth 25:54
Yes, sure. So I think B Corp at its simplest really is just like a network of certified companies who are focused on leading economic system change. So it sounds a bit wordy, but essentially, it’s just looking at the way that you do business, maybe away from just purely a profit lead value system to something that’s looking at the people that you have in your organisation, the planet and the community that you serve. So it’s just taking a viewpoint of business and just switching it around, really, and I think the main objective for B Corp or B labs who own the certification process is just to focus on building an economy that benefits many, not just the few i.e. shareholders. So they are driving a social and environmental push for change, really around corporate accountability, social impact. And yes it’s just a fundamental shift from being a profit led organisation to a purpose driven business. So that’s essentially the journey that Hallam has gone on over the last. I mean, it’s been about two years now that I think we’ve been going on this process, it’s taken a solid year of incredible hard work from our Managing Director, and Julie, who’s our Strategy Director, they’ve led the charge really in this hugely time intensive certification process, where we basically have to demonstrate our commitment and accountability and transparency from Employee Benefits charity work, supply chain, making sure we’re not working with clients in industries that are obviously harmful for the planet, those kinds of things. So I think one thing that we’ve seen, and that impacts me directly is that we’ve doubled the number of clients that we serve in positive sectors. So renewable energy, for instance, non for profits, charities, and we’ve almost completely moved away from serving any clients in harmful sectors. So even just as a value driven organisation that strives for a positive culture that just really helps motivate the team and also to be where we’re bringing in clients where we are saying no potentially to some harmful businesses that are coming through and wanting to work with us, like a kind of money’s where our mouth is we are almost walking away from some of these clients, that’s the biggest shift that I guess I’ve seen in my kind of client service hat, seeing that movement and that shift. So that’s been brilliant to see that.
Jenny 28:41
A couple of questions that came up from what you just said, and thank you for explaining what it is so succinctly. Two questions. Do you think that this actually gives Hallam more of a competitive edge when they’re looking for talent? Because right now, as we’re speaking, November 2022, over the last six to eight months, it’s been a real struggle for agencies to attract the right people to join their business. Do you think it’s a differentiator?
Beth 29:14
I do, but I think it’s going to be soon not a differentiator. I mean I’m already seeing a lot of agencies starting to get B Corp status. And that’s accelerating. It is a differentiator in the sense that I think is it’s always great to ground yourself in values and develop a healthy culture that people want to come work with and that will always attract good talent, right. And it will also attract talent who are also value driven, and then it expands into the business that you want it to be anyway, you know, naturally. But I think, honestly, I think there’s just going to have to be a shift for businesses to become more environmentally conscious, more socially conscious, I think funding is just going to start getting funneled towards those businesses who do that. So in which case, if you were thinking about the long term, would be which clients do we want to be working with in the future? It’s going to be businesses that are able to sustain all of this change to additional funding, you know, green levies, all these things. And it makes sense to target those businesses as well, just purely from a new business perspective. So I think it’s amazing that we’ve got these values, and we can firmly stamp our mark on that. But it’s also thinking about where are we going to be in three to five years’ time, I reckon governments around the world are going to continue to prioritise companies that do hopefully have an environmental and social conscience. Fingers crossed. Anyway, that’s what I hope.
Jenny 30:47
I’m sure you’re right. I think that’s a great point. My other question was, how do you evaluate a client is harmful, you use the word harmful? So I’m just curious. Well, how do you go about doing that?
Beth 31:01
So there is sectors that B Corp essentially will put in a criteria of being harmful. So that’s oil and gas, and fast fashion, and those kind of businesses that just typically have a lot more impact to the environment than potentially otherwise. And then it’s also about doing a level of due diligence at the new business stage, obviously, making sure that they don’t have any big PR stories behind them, that will follow them around, any culture of malpractice, any issues with, I don’t know, responsibility with their employees – trained staff badly, you know, so we just do a level of homework and checks and just make sure that the businesses that we do want to work with fit the criteria really
Jenny 32:02
Great makes total sense. How interesting. So just moving on to another topic that I want to talk to you about Hallam has consistently won The Drum Recommends award three times. Now, that’s a huge achievement for the agency. So I just wondered because The Drum is the industry magazine, I just wondered if you could just talk about what is The Drum Recommends exactly? And how did you manage to win it three times?
Beth 32:31
What’s the secret? What’s the secret? So yes, The Drum Recommends is essentially an agency league table. So you can set up a profile as an agency. And then what you can do is you can send out surveys to your clients that can then rate you on your services and your products. So what we love about shouting about that award is the fact that it is not just something that we have paid to get a seat at the marketing awards table, and written a really good entry about our top performing client, you know, how often we win other industry awards is actually based on collated feedback from our clients direct from them. So that’s why we were always so proud to shout about that. So, yes, you basically ask, you send them a survey, they’re complete. They complete it just really quick. It’s like 30 seconds, out of 10. You know, how would you rate our SEO services, for instance, and then they can leave a nice little feedback testimonial as well. I think to answer your question, what is our secret?
First, it’s not really a secret, just do great work for your clients. That’s step one, really. So obviously, it isn’t easy. It’s just deliver good work. But that’s the first step really. And then I think, the slightly less kind of the more practical side and the more admin heavy side is, we have consistently at every point where our client is really, really happy with our services, we just tell the account managers, okay, now it’s time to get Drum Recommends Award survey out to them or it’s time to ask for a case study if you can do both great! Happy client- immediately what can we try and extract from them? Testimonials, video testimonials. So, The Drum Recommends is part of that cycle and continuous. If they’re happy, let’s get in front of them takes 30 seconds job done. And then from there, that’s over a year, then you can you can, sorry, I was going to say drum up,
Jenny 34:40
But you can drum up! boom, boom.!!
Beth 34:43
Yes, you can drum up lots of recommendations. So that’s what we have done great work delivered by the team, but also just having a system where you get good feedback on an ongoing basis.
Jenny 34:59
That is another Golden Nugget right there asking at the right moment? Because you’re absolutely right, once a client is really happy, rather than saying, Oh, thanks very much I’ll let the team know, and by the way, would you mind spending 30 seconds, because you’re right, if it only takes 30 seconds, they’re more likely to do it, aren’t they?
Beth 35:17
Yes, and The Drum Recommends. So don’t do this, just top tips for anyone that does want to do this, if you leave it until the surveys need to be completed. And The Drum essentially gives you a cutoff point, if you take the surveys at that point or moment in time, there are going to be some clients that maybe just are a bit naturally, oh, service level isn’t that great or a bit grumbly, maybe with performance or things that are not necessarily the best that it can be. If you if you go out to all of your clients at that point, then obviously, sometimes it is just going to be a moment in time. So if you continually ask for it throughout the year, versus leaving it all to one time point, I’d definitely recommend doing that over the latter.
Jenny 36:04
Thank you for sharing that. I think that’s a brilliant, brilliant piece of advice. And also, if you go and have a look on The Drum Recommends, you have got a very full looking profile, I managed too I was looking on behalf of a client of mine. And there is a variability around how much time people seem to invest in what their profile looks like so it’s like any social media profile, isn’t it? You want to look like it’s active and full.
Beth 36:29
Yes, and for any agency that is maybe struggling to generate inbound leads, sort your Drum profile. That’s one of the things that I would recommend doing and focusing on and getting those recommendations from clients. It is one of the only places that you can really go on and have almost like Trustpilot, It’s like the equivalent of Trustpilot. But for agencies. And you would be surprised at how many people in their journey to purchase for with an agency will do research on that platform first, and then they’ll generate their shortlist. So if you’re not seeing any kind of traffic from The Drum Recommends, it’s probably because your profile isn’t great. It means that people aren’t even looking at your website, it means picking other agencies over you to shortlist. So invest in that it’s absolutely worth doing and we definitely get a lot of people saying, Where did you find us? Where did you see us? Oh, you know, I shortlisted from The Drum Recommend. So I definitely recommend spending some time doing that.
Jenny 37:30
Very good advice. That’s really solid. Thank you for sharing that. Now, you’ve been in account management for a long time now. And I’m really keen for you to share what you think are the key reasons a client relationship is successful for an agency?
Beth 37:51
I think the main thing that I always come back to when I’m speaking to the team about is building trust, I think any relationship that has a foundation of trust is it’s going to be long lasting, and it’s going to be fruitful. So there are things that you can do, I explain it is like a reservoir, there are things that you can be doing to add into your trust reservoir. So like adding new water, but there’s immediately stuff that you can immediately do to deplete it as well. So there’s things that you can just start doing right from the word go – onboarding, build up your reservoir of trust. And then potentially if there’s some things that happen naturally, no one’s perfect, the agency doesn’t deliver quality work all the time, you know, be mistake free, then at least it only impacts the reservoir a little bit. If that analogy makes sense.
Spending time building trust, I think it’s just so important. And again, coming back to onboarding, doing things like setting really clear expectations about what actually good looks like to the client. Because if you’re if you’re singing from different hymn sheets, then that trust is never going to be built effectively. So what we tend to like to do at Hallam is essentially we’ve got just an expectations framework on a page, it’s something that I get the account manager and the client to fill out right at the start. And it’s like, okay, what is award winning behaviours to you? What is award winning performance? What is award winning delivery? and then also on the other end of the spectrum, if we’re just really pissing you off for all moments. So what does that look like? And then at least if the client and account manager agree on that, and they say, okay, great, we’re on the same page, then at least the account manager has something to go back to the team continuously and say these are the award-winning behaviours, are we achieving them yet? Okay, if not, how do we get there? How do we get there? And then if, on the other side if things are going wrong, oh, I think it’s because we’re maybe not getting back to the client on time or we’re delivering work with mistakes in it. These were the things that we said the client said really will annoy them. So let’s try and get back to that award winning behaviour. And I think that is a firm foundation, that I have really found helps build trust over the long term.
Jenny 40:07
What a great piece of advice. And I love that. And it’s actually something that people can implement straightaway. Any, other tips that you can throw in there that have been successful for you?
Beth 40:18
I think I listened to your podcast with Garth Turner, talking about agency client relationships. And a lot of what he was saying really resonated, setting healthy standards and boundaries as an agency to almost just empower the team to not feel like they need to be walked all over by the client stakeholder, you are sometimes going to meet people on the client side, who maybe can be a little bit more fiery, and a little bit more of that red energy director type, which makes up, rubbing people along the wrong way. And I always just try and empower the team to feel like they can push back, they can say, Look, we’re not replying to that email at 9pm. Sorry, they’re just outside of our working hours. And just setting these kinds of healthy practices, right from the word go. Because if there is that power imbalance, which typically there can be naturally anyway, with a supplier client relationship, the client has the money, the agency needs to deliver the service. I think if we try and re-balance that, and just create that level of respect there, I think that really helps create successful client relationships, because you have your point of view and your expertise and you absolutely can push back and say no, at times, that’s absolutely a good thing to do.
Jenny 41:50
How do you when your account teams or project management teams are at the point where they have to have a difficult conversation with the client? How do you support them in that? Or do you have any kind of advice or tips around how to manage a difficult conversation with a client?
Beth 42:07
It really depends on where and who the client is. Firstly, so what is their personality type? What is their communication style? Just asking the team to maybe lay that out first be like, Okay, talk me through it. If you could describe this person, how would you describe them? How do they normally talk to you? And then trying to get them to think about Okay, well, what are the challenges? Where could you put yourself in their shoes as well? What is one of the things that maybe they could be annoyed at? Or what are the things that we could take accountability for as an agency? So right at the first point, before they’ve even had that conversation, thinking about what could we have done better, because that already immediately disarms people, if you go into a room and say, Look I know this is a challenging situation. and we understand that these things are frustrations, we will take accountability for X, blah, blah, blah. But it’s about setting that foundation – beginning before you even go into the room, noting all of those things down and being really clear about what and who they are, the communication style, and then potentially what we could take accountability for as an agency that will immediately allow them to feel more confident walking into that room.
Jenny 43:27
That’s great! and you’re right, because I think even 70% of the success of that conversation is going to come from your mindset. So if you get the mindset, right, before you go into the interaction, and as you say, take accountability, think about what we could do differently, or what we could have done differently, then you’re almost not going in there in a combative way, for example. So that’s really good advice. Do you look for anything particular when you’re hiring people, for your account management team specifically? Are there any kind of traits or characteristics that you look for in someone that you know, is going to be more successful?
Beth 44:13
Low ego is a big one that we look for. Being successful for an account manager, you have to have a low ego, because otherwise you really will struggle with getting people on side and influencing. So a low ego I feel like it’s a superpower for an account manager because you can go into any room and just say, look I’ve played my part as well. You can dwell on people’s better nature, as well as with the ego point. So yes, low ego, a sense of accountability, and drive and ambition I think is a really big one. So I think you know if you listen to somebody and you ask the question something like, when was the last time you took accountability over something that you didn’t necessarily own directly? The answer to that question often is really telling, because I think in order to progress, not only in your account management position with your clients, but also more broadly in business, I think looking at something that you don’t necessarily own, and seeing a challenge in it, and seeing it as an opportunity to take it, run with it, fix it, and help the wider business is a huge reason people succeed and make their way up the corporate ladder, so to speak. So yes, sense of accountability, sense of ownership, is a really, really big one for me. And resilience, account management is hard, it’s really hard. A lot of the time, you feel that you are having to apologise for things that you didn’t even do as in the work that you were delivering. And it’s busy, and you’re fighting fires a lot of the time and a lot of the things are within your influence, but outside of your control, and that can sometimes be challenging. So yes, resilience, you’re going to get bounced around all over the place. And as long as you can do it, do it with a sense of humour and a smile that is going to help your day to day enjoyment no end.
Jenny 46:27
I bet you there’s people listening, just kind of nodding along of what you’re saying there. Yes, I get that – I’ll take into responsibility that it’s not my fault. Just finally, on this topic of managing client relationships, and how the account management team operate, what’s most important to you about how your team manages the client relationship?
Beth 46:50
I probably just covered some of them. But yes, ownership accountability, I think stamping out blame culture within your team within the internal team. And the way that you can do that is having a culture of radical candour. So, if work isn’t up to scratch, or the team dynamics isn’t gelling well enough, you get in a room, and everyone gets any bit of everything out on the table, but in a kind and caring way, like everyone’s doing their best, you know, and I think sometimes people just have blind spots, and they don’t even realise what they’re doing, something that may not necessarily be working for the other team members. So, yes, I think standing up blame culture, being the client in the room, I think, also really helps. So that goes back to, if you know your clients business really well, and you are endlessly curious about your client’s business, then you can come back into the agency, and you can make sure that you’re giving the team the client perspective. So again, this comes back to if the team is not gelling or working. Well, if you come in and say, actually, maybe it’s because the client isn’t a lot of pressure, because they’re really working towards this client deadline, how can we relieve some of their pressure? Maybe we can go above and beyond by doing X Y, Z, and the team suddenly goes, Oh, yes, oh, I didn’t realise that was stress. Now, I understand now, just putting that external perspective back into the room with the team really helps. Accountability when it comes to client growth is really important that commercial ownership that account managers take. So the account managers are responsible for growth, profitability, experience, retention, they are big, chunky things, especially when you have a wide multidisciplinary team around you delivering, so sometimes it can feel like you don’t actually have a lot of control. But I always say to the team, you absolutely have so much control to lead and influence and make either a client’s successful or not on the other side of it. So as long as they feel like they have ownership over that commercial element, I think that’s really important as well. And then just acting in a value driven relationship way. It’s, how do we make sure that the agency is client centric? So we always have the client viewpoint when we walk into situations because and I don’t know whether it’s just a business thing in general, but I think agencies especially can become so blinkered with their own operational service delivery and be, wow, we’re doing this amazing, new radical thing and you’re like, does a client actually need this? I’m not sure. So I think looking, making sure that the client is focused on within the agency, is really important as well.
Jenny 50:02
I think that’s super important. And you’ve just hit on something, and I think it was Jeff Bezos, in most meetings has insisted on having an empty chair in the meeting room. And he said, That’s the customer sitting there. So let’s imagine that we’ve got the customer here. So what you’ve just said echoes that kind of sentiment, which I think is fantastic. I think a lot of what you’ve said, so far, Beth, paints a picture of what your leadership style is, very, very collaborative, very supportive of your team. But is there anything else about being a leader of an account management team that you think you could share with the audience too- just in terms of kind of tips for them or advice for anyone stepping into more of a leadership role?
Beth 50:43
Yes. And it’s funny that I think you said that two words, my insights profile, you know, where you get all the colours and the wheel and stuff, I’d maybe recommend everyone that’s looking to go into a leadership role to definitely do one of them, just really to understand yourself and understand your natural strengths, weaknesses. But mine is coordinating support, I think you literally said those two words when you when you describe so yeah, I’d say I’m democratic in style. And, I want to empower the team and then get out of their way. Really, I think that’s, the main thing. I think, looking at my journey into leadership, I always felt really, at the start of my career that I didn’t feel like I had the natural style to become a traditional leader, I’m not the red energy guy, I’m not the kind of walk into a room who’s shouting the loudest kind of person. And I don’t think I had a lot of people necessarily to model, what a democratic empathetic leader actually looks like. And that was 10 years ago, there’s so much more conversation about that, and especially with, looking at female leaders as well in the industry. So I think it’s just understanding there is no one size fits all to what makes a successful leader. And, as long as you understand yourself, understand that everyone has strengths and weaknesses and making sure that you’re doubling down on your strengths and making sure that the weaknesses things aren’t holding you back, I think anyone can jump into a leadership position, if that’s what their ambitions are. So maybe a tip is just not feel insecure, if you’re not that kind of traditional director, red energy guy. And the thing that I’ve also found with going into a leadership position is the bigger picture, the jumping from thinking about the day to day, your day to day, an individual contributor, if you see a problem on the ground, you can fix it, I think moving into more of a leadership style you thinking, Okay, how do I communicate what the challenge is, and then empower the team and delegate, and just feel okay with the fact that the guys are getting on with it. And that’s my natural style. So that’s what I fit into. But I think as a bit of a control freak, it is sometimes challenging to feel that you can just let things go and hope that things get done and I found that quite difficult moving from an account manager on the ground then overseeing everything. And so seeing these fires appear every day and then being Okay, I have to not just go barrel in and try and fix it. It’s okay, well, what are the systemic issues that we’re facing as an agency and I’ll go and try and fix them, rather than necessarily disempowering the team by just barreling in every time something goes wrong. So I think that’s what I’d encourage people to do. Don’t try and jump over people or micromanage people or think you’re kind of better than them. Great, yes. So I think the important thing for me when wouldn’t kind of leading the team is just focusing on not getting too down in the weeds with them. So moving from an individual contributor to a leader, I think the important thing is to not just hang around the small things that need to get fixed. It’s actually thinking about how I can empower the people in my team to learn and grow and develop to fix those things themselves so that I don’t have to necessarily come barreling in and no one wants that really to have a director coming in and out of all their meetings. It’s important about just trusting the team spending time coaching, mentoring, fixing the big systemic issues of an agency versus the small little fires. So yes I think that’s definitely a tip for anyone that’s moving into a leadership position as well.
Jenny 55:09
That’s such a good piece of advice. Because when you’re good at account management, you are a little bit of a control freak. That’s what makes you, right. But all of a sudden, you become a leader of an account management team, and you have almost got to stop being a control freak. So I think what you’ve just said is so spot on spending your energy on mentoring, coaching, looking at the systemic issues, I think that’s super advice. So thank you for sharing this, and we’ve come to the top of the hour, this has gone so fantastically. Thank you so much for sharing so much for your advice. I have taken loads of notes and I’m sure other people have too. So if anyone is listening to this, and would like to have a chat with you, either, from a client perspective, because they’re curious about what Hallam does, or from an account management perspective, that they they’re just curious about your career path. Who would you like to hear from particularly? And if so, what’s the best way of getting hold of you? Yes so any kind of budding ambitious account managers who think maybe Hallam is the right place for them or even just to reach out for some advice, absolutely. Reach out to me on LinkedIn, you’ll be able to find me on there. For any clients that want to work with a strategic digital marketing agency, feel free to Google us at Hallam internet.com. That’s where you can find us on there. But also just reached out to me directly on LinkedIn as well for any opportunities and I can pass it on to the relevant people in our team.
Beth 56:06
This has been fantastic. Thank you so much for spending time with me. I’ve really, really enjoyed it. So thank you. Thanks so much, Jenny.
